| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 6 post(s) |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:44:00 -
[1] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Did we ever find out how long the ban is?
Perma or temp? Depends on what erotica decides to do, really. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
91
|
Posted - 2014.03.29 19:53:00 -
[2] - Quote
Vance Armistice wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Vance Armistice wrote:Did we ever find out how long the ban is?
Perma or temp? Depends on what erotica decides to do, really. Meaning? He jumps on his alt accounts (if he's no banned) or he starts afresh. Wouldn't be hard for him, considering he has friends willing to lend a hand. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
98
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:14:00 -
[3] - Quote
Danalee wrote:- When players cross that line they should be held accountable for their action. Agreed. By means of warning followed up by appropriate action if the warning isn't heeded. This is the crux of the issue for me. If Erotica 1 had been warned before ultimately being banned, I'd have no issue with the matter. However, if players are being invited to use their discretion on matters of conduct, then banned because CCP believes their discretion was wrong, then there's no point in inviting players to use their discretion at all. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
101
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:56:00 -
[4] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Danalee wrote:- When players cross that line they should be held accountable for their action. Agreed. By means of warning followed up by appropriate action if the warning isn't heeded. This is the crux of the issue for me. If Erotica 1 had been warned before ultimately being banned, I'd have no issue with the matter. However, if players are being invited to use their discretion on matters of conduct, then banned because CCP believes their discretion was wrong, then there's no point in inviting players to use their discretion at all. Probably because there are occasions where nothing but a outright ban will be good enough. Also if you can think of those situations where this would apply but still go ahead and do them, then you deserver to be banned. If you can not think any occasion or any situation where a outright ban can never be justified then there is something wrong with you There are situations where an outright ban is appropriate. Such as illegal RMT, hacking, deliverately disrupting server stability, avoiding CONCORD vengeance after ganking someone. These are rules where there is no grey area, you break them or don't. In these situations, account action without prior warning is acceptable because there simply isn't room for misinterpretation.
When it comes to player interaction, there are far too many scenarios to enumerate, hence CCP should allow players to use their discretion on such matters. However, like I said, if CCP feel that a player is pushing too hard and has indeed crossed the line, then a warning should be issue. Otherwise, what's the point in inviting players to use their discretion? WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
103
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 15:58:00 -
[5] - Quote
Krixtal Icefluxor wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Danalee wrote:- When players cross that line they should be held accountable for their action. Agreed. By means of warning followed up by appropriate action if the warning isn't heeded. This is the crux of the issue for me. If Erotica 1 had been warned before ultimately being banned, I'd have no issue with the matter. However, if players are being invited to use their discretion on matters of conduct, then banned because CCP believes their discretion was wrong, then there's no point in inviting players to use their discretion at all. You are actually implying that Ero1 used discretion ?  You think he didn't? His actions clearly demonstrate he was trying to play within the rules. As twisted a sense of humour we may think he has, he acted in such a way that didn't break any rules as far as his interpretation of them was concerned. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:12:00 -
[6] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Tor Norman wrote: When it comes to player interaction, there are far too many scenarios to enumerate, hence CCP should allow players to use their discretion on such matters. However, like I said, if CCP feel that a player is pushing too hard and has indeed crossed the line, then a warning should be issue. Otherwise, what's the point in inviting players to use their discretion?
Yet there are hard line rules in place already regarding to player interaction. Rules which any sane human being would not argue with and will get you an outright ban. Outside of those rules CCP do use their discretion and sometime you might be given a warning, other times you will receive a ban. CCP already allow us a certain amount of discretion, however for somethings THEY HAVE to have hard line rules. Racism is just one example. There can never be any room for any kind of discussion, discretion or warnings in these instances. You make a racist comment, racist abuse then you will be banned. Here it stated in the TOS "You may not use any abusive, defamatory, ethnically or racially offensive, harassing, harmful, hateful, obscene, offensive, sexually explicit, threatening or vulgar language. (Alternate spelling or partial masking of such words will be reprimanded in the same manner as the actual use of such words.)" Now are you really saying that this shouldn't be part of the TOS? I wasn't clear enough, my bad. Outside of the scenarios already outlined, there are far too many examples to enumerate. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:15:00 -
[7] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:Tor Norman wrote:You think he didn't? His actions clearly demonstrate he was trying to play within the rules. As twisted a sense of humour we may think he has, he acted in such a way that didn't break any rules as far as his interpretation of them was concerned. His interpretation, our interpretation does not matter, all that does matter is CCP's interpretation. You can argue all you like but this applies to every single game. The Developers interpretation is the on that matters, not the players, don't like, don't play. Exactly. While I wouldn't advocate CCP's stance on the matter myself, I find their stance to be perfectly reasonable. That said, an invitation to use one's discretion isn't actually an invitation when getting it wrong immediately results in a ban. E1's discretion didn't fall in line with CCP's. In that situation, the appropriate response from CCP would be to warn him, then ban him when he decides to disregard that warning. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:17:00 -
[8] - Quote
Qalix wrote:Tor Norman wrote:This is the crux of the issue for me. If Erotica 1 had been warned before ultimately being banned, I'd have no issue with the matter. However, if players are being invited to use their discretion on matters of conduct, then banned because CCP believes their discretion was wrong, then there's no point in inviting players to use their discretion at all. Because he totally didn't understand that his behavior was over the top. No matter what people do, CCP should definitely have to warn them first Seems reasonable.
Quote:or create a list of every possible human behavior that could be considered offensive in anticipation of the next sociopathic outburst by random players. Not feasible, hence why warnings are required. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:21:00 -
[9] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:[Of course there is, that is why CCP give us, the players the benefit of the doubt to know when we are going to far or when we hit the point were what we are doing is simply not acceptable.
If you are unable to tell when you have gone to far then there is something probably wrong with you and being banned from the game is good for everybody. What? CCP should givge us the ebenfit of the doubt when we go too far but should ban us when we go too far?
I don't even WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
104
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:24:00 -
[10] - Quote
Prince Kobol wrote:No because what he did went well past of what is considered socially, morally and ethically acceptable by most people. He didn't just step over the line, he went so far past the line he could't even see the line. There was no line for E1. In your opinion. The discussions relating to the merits of whether or not the player could leave TS at any time, the issues of greed and survival instincts, scamming, expectation of responsibility of other players' mental welfare have all een discussed over thousands of posts already. At this point I'm just going to skip all that and say I agree to disagree.
Quote:At the moment the only person word we have that he was perma banned is James315, for all we know he got a 7, 14, 30 day ban. only time will really tell. True. My entire argument hinges on the scenario where E1 received no warnings and was immediately permabanned. In any other situation, I don't have a problem. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:47:00 -
[11] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Tor Norman wrote: That said, an invitation to use one's discretion isn't actually an invitation when getting it wrong immediately results in a ban. E1's discretion didn't fall in line with CCP's. In that situation, the appropriate response from CCP would be to warn him, then ban him when he decides to disregard that warning.
Agreed. CCP, are we invited to use our own discretion or not? It's hardly true to say that ero was "immediately" banned, now is it? Of course he wasn't. However, if he wasn't under the notion he was doing anything wrong, why would he stop? WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 16:48:00 -
[12] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Malcanis wrote:It's hardly true to say that ero was "immediately" banned, now is it? Oh, he was warned than about conducting bonus room stuff on teamspeak? If so, I'm totally gonna get off your back because I'd be wrong for pushing you guys for clarity. Ditto that. If he'd been warned at any point, then I have no issue. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 17:06:00 -
[13] - Quote
Danalee wrote:Now, was there a warning to Erotica 1 on the bonus room, yes or no? If yes: I can finally go work in my garden as I've promised to do for the last week. We both know you're just going to procrastinate some more. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:12:00 -
[14] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:I'm very confident that he knew full well that what he was doing was unacceptable to CCP. That was why he was so careful to keep everything that he knew full well was way over the limit out of CCP's direct control, wrongly assuming that this would save him.
Not that it mattered after he started getting careless.
There's nothing in the TOS that states, explicitly or otherwise that anything that is deemed unacceptable within the EVE client is acceptable outside of it. I don't believe that Erotica 1 considered this to be the case, either so I very much doubt that bonus room contestants were brought into TS in order to skirt the game's rules. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
111
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 19:15:00 -
[15] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Tor Norman wrote: Exactly. While I wouldn't advocate CCP's stance on the matter myself, I find their stance to be perfectly reasonable. That said, an invitation to use one's discretion isn't actually an invitation when getting it wrong immediately results in a ban. E1's discretion didn't fall in line with CCP's. In that situation, the appropriate response from CCP would be to warn him, then ban him when he decides to disregard that warning.
If you agree, why hasnt the racist IRL threat issuing mark been banned? You agree with that part?
No. But that's not the part that I'm discussing at the moment. Honestly, I'm not so bothered about it as the possibility of being banned without warning for breaking rules I wasn't aware I was breaking. I'd have thought that would be a much larger concern for most EVE players. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:04:00 -
[16] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:The fact that most of the people are actively ignoring that part (as you are) is rather interesting. I'm not actively ignoring it. The warning issue is more concerning to me than sohkar's punishment. This discussion and its various aspects has spanned thousands of posts already, hence I want to focus my discussion on what I feel is more important. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
112
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:12:00 -
[17] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Tor Norman wrote:Antisocial Malkavian wrote:The fact that most of the people are actively ignoring that part (as you are) is rather interesting. I'm not actively ignoring it. The warning issue is more concerning to me than sohkar's punishment. This discussion and its various aspects has spanned thousands of posts already, hence I want to focus my discussion on what I feel is more important. Ah, the racism and IRL threats arent important to you then. I get it No, they're not relevant to me. I engage in content generation and emergent game play. On one hand, emergent game play is condoned by CCP, such as miner bumping. On another, it's a permabannable offence, such as the bonus room. I would have considered neither a breach of the game's rules, hence I am concerned I might take part that I thought were allowed well inside the game's rules but find myself getting banned for it.
Racism is obviously against the game's rules but is something I'll never take part in, hence it's not relevant to me. The fact that sohkar seems to have got away from it, seemingly scott free is a concern, but I'm more interested in my game than ensuring some random has been adequately punished. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
113
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:20:00 -
[18] - Quote
Antisocial Malkavian wrote:Ah, they dont AFFECT you so theyre not important.
You want a shovel? " I engage in content generation and emergent game play. On one hand, emergent game play is condoned by CCP, such as miner bumping. On another, it's a permabannable offence, such as the bonus room. I would have considered neither a breach of the game's rules, hence I am concerned I might take part in activities that I thought were allowed well inside the game's rules but find myself getting banned for it.
Racism is obviously against the game's rules but is something I'll never take part in, hence it's not relevant to me. The fact that sohkar seems to have got away from it, seemingly scott free is a concern, but I'm more interested in my game than ensuring some random has been adequately punished."
They're important. By all means pursue and discuss the matter, I have every faith you'll find a way to settle the issue. The part I want to discuss is the part that is of more concern to me.
I don't know why you're pursuing this line of conversation with such zealotry. The bonus room scandal has kicked up a lot of discussion and I don't want to dilute the parts I take part in by engaging in conversation that I don't deem to be the most important and relevant to my own interests.
I've given you the answers to your questions. Now please, let me pursue my line of discussion. I have no issue with you following yours. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
119
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 20:39:00 -
[19] - Quote
H aVo K wrote:Malcanis wrote: I'm very confident that he knew full well that what he was doing was unacceptable to CCP. That was why he was so careful to keep everything that he knew full well was way over the limit out of CCP's direct control, wrongly assuming that this would save him.
Not that it mattered after he started getting careless.
I don't follow the miner bumping crowd (I run an indy corp and they're the reason why I have to pay rent instead of just running my operations in hisec), so my apologies if I've got this wrong.... but: I thought they went out of their way to POST their hijinks/tomfoolery/fuckery/debasery/stuffery/andThingsery? That's a part of my reasoning, too. If they thought that they were hiding evidence from CCP, why would they publicize it? Hardly the actions of someone thinking they're breaking the rules. WTF did I just read? |

Tor Norman
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
120
|
Posted - 2014.03.31 21:22:00 -
[20] - Quote
Ssabat Thraxx wrote:Toshiro Ozuwara wrote:I see the tears are still flowing today. You see my tears... which means you know I have lost control over my emotions, for I have broken down and cried. I sure hope you're not mocking me, now. DONT CROSS THAT LINE! I fear for your account, sir. Quick! Contact Ripard. He shall summon the carebear swarm to bring about swift justice (after 30 days)! WTF did I just read? |
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